Osttruppens and sandbags

#1
5 years ago

Should Osttruppen squad be able to build sandbags? What do you think about it? Conscripts are able to build them and they are far more capable in many things - molotovs, at nades etc. Plus they are cost only 40mp more (I understand that you can't compare main/base unit to doctrine one but let's just skip it). Or allow them build conscripts-like sandbags (big and not too durable).
I know they can build bunkers and trenches and I know that engineers can build sandbags now but bunkers are costs 150 mp and trenches are not very reliable and simple like sandbags. Just want to hear some thoughts from you guys.

Comments

  • #2
    5 years ago

    Yeah I think that would work well for them, especially as they have the cover bonus it would be handy to be able to pump out their own cover to work with the accuracy bonus (which they definitely need to be considered viable)

  • #3
    5 years ago

    Say that since years, but relic and this forum don't except logical game-design.

  • #4
    5 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    What stops you from using pios to make sandbags?

    Look at soviet infantry-conscripts are the only unit that does not benefit from using a sandbag(too low effective range) and the only one who can build them.

    If you're going osttruppen doctrine, you have trenches anyway.
    If you use relief infantry, the game is late enough that at least yellow cover is everywhere.

  • #5
    5 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited September 2016

    @Katitof, you played Osttruppen some time ago?

    Trenches are holes of suicide. Before they don't get same stats as British one there is no reason to build it, I would play 50mp. Osttruppen only benefit from fast refresh, they can't in trenches.

    Give Osttruppen free sandbags and change the trench with hull-down.

    Edit: For example the bonus of Tommys is OP, Osttruppen really needs cover and good gameplay. Without bonus they are useless and because of their target size they die like flies.

  • #6
    5 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    edited September 2016

    @Widerstreit said:
    @Katitof, you played Osttruppen some time ago?

    Trenches are holes of suicide. Before they don't get same stats as British one there is no reason to build it, I would play 50mp. Osttruppen only benefit from fast refresh, they can't in trenches.

    Give Osttruppen free sandbags and change the trench with hull-down.

    Edit: For example the bonus of Tommys is OP, Osttruppen really needs cover and good gameplay. Without bonus they are useless and because of their target size they die like flies.

    Yes, its one of my fav doctrines.
    I'm not using trenches, because there is plenty of cover everywhere as it is, but you have them if you need them.

    If you want actual sandbags, you have pios to build them.
    No faction has more then 1 unit building sandbags.

  • #7
    5 years ago

    Then remove it from Pios for Osttruppen, that would be better. Many Doctrines have Osttruppen as reserve, so maybe this ability become more useful too.

  • #8
    5 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    @Widerstreit said:
    Then remove it from Pios for Osttruppen, that would be better. Many Doctrines have Osttruppen as reserve, so maybe this ability become more useful too.

    How the hell does moving an ability from a T0 starting unit to a doctrinal unit that won't show up until 3/6 cp in most doctrines make it "more useful"?

  • #9
    5 years ago

    Yeah putting sandbags on a call and taking it from a core unit is a bit silly..
    Would be good if they would swap trenches for sandbags though

  • #10
    5 years ago
    Never saw Ost using sandbags, they need too long too build and on-map-cover is enough for most German units and tactics. Only unit that would really benefit from sandbags is the Osttrupp.

    There we are comming back to the point that Ostheer is bad designed after all this years and patches.


    German trench = useless
    Pioneers = if Grens could build they wouldn't be needed
    Grenadiers = Volks are cheaper and better
    Panzergrenadiers = Sturmpios are cheaper and better
    ... etc.
  • #11
    5 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Widerstreit said:
    Never saw Ost using sandbags, they need too long too build and on-map-cover is enough for most German units and tactics. Only unit that would really benefit from sandbags is the Osttrupp.

    There we are comming back to the point that Ostheer is bad designed after all this years and patches.


    German trench = useless
    Pioneers = if Grens could build they wouldn't be needed
    Grenadiers = Volks are cheaper and better
    Panzergrenadiers = Sturmpios are cheaper and better
    ... etc.

    Neither volks nor sturms are cheaper then their equivalents.
    Its also debatable which one is better, they don't perform the same combat role, they just happen to both be basic infantry.

  • #12
    5 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited September 2016
    Not the same combat role? Are you sure?

    Ost only has better Units than OKW if there is no real equivalent. Sniper, Mortar, PaK and StuG.

    It's time to redesign some things of Ost to bring them back to balance. But first eliminate all commanders and make some useful one like brits has. That need not much work. I wouldn't need more than one week to recycle the stuff Ost has.

    Edit: Also Osttruppen are UP and too expensive if you compare them with Volks, nearly the same price.



    So, instead of making painting events they should use the community to balance the game and make it looking logical or simply open full modding tools.
  • #13
    5 years ago
    GrittleGrittle Posts: 993

    @Blitzkitten said:
    Yeah putting sandbags on a call and taking it from a core unit is a bit silly..
    Would be good if they would swap trenches for sandbags though

    Or maybe

    maybe

    maybe

    we can just merge tank traps and trenches into one ability and have Prottruppen be able to tank trap for free cover

    And give a good ability to defensive doctrine like the unused ostheer supply FHQ.

    Also replace Ostrruppen's vet 1 ability with a normal grenade.

  • #14
    5 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549

    The problem with "only pioniers build sandbags" its that they need to be anywhere on the map building them, forcing you to have too many pioniers, when in any other faction this task is for infantry units which always have big numbers and are on the places that need this structure, and this ones also do use of such structure after they build it.

    And knowing that all infantry in osthern can construct somekind of defensive structure, it wouldnt be so strange to find osttruppen building sandbags, and if such thing is an unbalanced isue, then we should aswell take a look on british infantry sections since they have the same problems as osttruppen.

    And if you question the part of "any osthern infantry can build defenses" keep in mind that panzergrenadiers can hull down tanks and build trenches, while stormtroopers have the model of panzergrenadiers but cant be find on any doctrine with defensive structures. Ironically even assault grenadiers, full ofensive unit, can build bunkers.

  • #15
    5 years ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 850

    I wouldnt mind osttruppen being able to build sand bags, but like Katitof said, just use pios. Depending on the map your ost should be in buildings/existing green cover most of the time, and when they need cover, pios aren't ever that far away.

  • #16
    5 years ago

    Yes they should be able to build sandbags.

    @Katitof said:
    What stops you from using pios to make sandbags?

    Look at soviet infantry-conscripts are the only unit that does not benefit from using a sandbag(too low effective range) and the only one who can build them.

    If you're going osttruppen doctrine, you have trenches anyway.
    If you use relief infantry, the game is late enough that at least yellow cover is everywhere.

    I don't know the exact conscript range although I suspect the range is same as grenadiers. Much less damage at that range than grens ("effective range"), yes, which is why they do benefit from heavy cover. Just because it may not be optimal to stay at max range shootouts against volks or grens doesn't mean conscrips should stormtroop rush and no cover at long range is simply worse. Therefore they do benefit from being able to build sandbags.

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