We need more vetoes/Westwall balance issues

#1
6 years ago

Hello, we need more vetoes and also the map Westwall is really bad designed, the map has brick buildings in the cutoffs, there are roads with negative cover outside the buildings roads, the map has too many elevations that causes projectiles and bullets to hit the floor and also the map has too many obstacles like tank traps that causes really bad vehicle pathing, it needs to be fixed, meanwhile i sugest to give the players more vetoes

Comments

  • #2
    6 years ago
    Lord RommelLord Romm… Posts: 60
    edited July 2017

    I think you have a number of replays for me to enforce my map? Without replays i cant make the map better (because i have to see the issues).

    But some general notes for Westwall:

    • The dragon teeth line is working as intended. The high of the dragon teeth earth wall is 1.5m max. Often is is just 1m high difference. Sure. The line will block shells but it is working as intended. All in all there is just this single central earth wall. That is the biggest "elevation" of the map in the gameplay area. So I dont understand your point here (too many elevations).
    • Roads and Cover: I dont get your point. What is your problem here? U cant cap any point from inside of a building. The most important buildings for the central area are close to be destroyed (they have ~60% strength. A building cant be garrisoned unter 50%)
    • Tank obstacles: There is 4~5m space between each dragon teeth. It is big enough for any early game vehicle to cross the line. Often misclicking and "not using the reverse gear" can cause problems with the dragon teeth line. With the last version i had already changed the vehicle crossing points from 5 to 7 gaps.

    You are always welcome to help me to enforce the quality of my map but like i had already written: Replays are your best arguments because i have to see the issues.

  • #3
    6 years ago
    LucianoLuciano Posts: 26

    @Lord Rommel dijo:
    I think you have a number of replays for me to enforce my map? Without replays i cant make the map better (because i have to see the issues).

    But some general notes for Westwall:

    • The dragon teeth line is working as intended. The high of the dragon teeth earth wall is 1.5m max. Often is is just 1m high difference. Sure. The line will block shells but it is working as intended. All in all there is just this single central earth wall. That is the biggest "elevation" of the map in the gameplay area. So I dont understand your point here (too many elevations).
    • Roads and Cover: I dont get your point. What is your problem here? U cant cap any point from inside of a building. The most important buildings for the central area are close to be destroyed (they have ~60% strength. A building cant be garrisoned unter 50%)
    • Tank obstacles: There is 4~5m space between each dragon teeth. It is big enough for any early game vehicle to cross the line. Often misclicking and "not using the reverse gear" can cause problems with the dragon teeth line. With the last version i had already changed the vehicle crossing points from 5 to 7 gaps.

    You are always welcome to help me to enforce the quality of my map but like i had already written: Replays are your best arguments because i have to see the issues.

    I dont know what game mode do you play, but almost every decen player in 1v1 will agree that buildings on vetoes = no bueno, even more if the made of brick, rushing those too buildings is too strong, almost a insta win, getting the unit out of there is too hard, even more with the red cover road on the side that is the only way to reach the building, just to put an example, if you are usf and a axis player rushes the building riflemen cant do little vs the garrison at long range, by the time you get the mortar or the nade the axis player is already in a high advantage because he is closer to his light vehicle. The dragon theet main issue is that creates really bad pathing issues, it is really frustrating trying to scape with vehicles and getting trapped by the dragon theet, vehicles such as m10s tank destroyers are really difficult to use, they are a unit that need to attack and back quickly, the map just denies that. I dont know why you say that there are no replays, there are lots of replays casted on that map on youtube, i have the map vetoed right now because it is really frustrating to play on it, but ill unvetoe it and ill give you replays. Also it makes the map pretty campy to okw, they can just put the battlegroup on the cutoff, make 2 or 3 leigs = win

  • #4
    6 years ago
    Lord RommelLord Romm… Posts: 60
    edited July 2017

    Well. I need YOUR replays because you are complaining about the map ;)
    I had a number of chats and talks with other pvp topplayers and topcasters in the past. There are problems but the buildings were never mentioned before so i think they are no problem (because u are the first person who has problems with the buildings).
    I think building camping is no issue on Westwall because with all the cutoffs and sector caps you can outmaneuver static gameplay. Or you are using micro to wire the buildings within a few seconds (i think there was a impressive game casted by Dane in May showing the building wire tatics).
    But at the end i can accept u are using your veto.

    Edit:
    I checked the common played 1on1 maps. Basing on your argumentation for building design you are using vetos on Arnhem and Faymonville too, right? They are using full health houses next to VPs and/or cutoffs with negative cover close the houses.

  • #5
    6 years ago
    LucianoLuciano Posts: 26
    edited July 2017

    @Lord Rommel dijo:
    Well. I need YOUR replays because you are complaining about the map ;)
    I had a number of chats and talks with other pvp topplayers and topcasters in the past. There are problems but the buildings were never mentioned before so i think they are no problem (because u are the first person who has problems with the buildings).
    I think building camping is no issue on Westwall because with all the cutoffs and sector caps you can outmaneuver static gameplay. Or you are using micro to wire the buildings within a few seconds (i think there was a impressive game casted by Dane in May showing the building wire tatics).
    But at the end i can accept u are using your veto.

    Edit:
    I checked the common played 1on1 maps. Basing on your argumentation for building design you are using vetos on Arnhem and Faymonville too, right? They are using full health houses next to VPs and/or cutoffs with negative cover close the houses.

    Ok, ill send you mines, i will make a post on coh2.org too, because no one heres actually posts :D But it will be something like this https://www.coh2.org/pm/62208/toughts-on-crossroads . As you can see my opinions are suported by top players like Luvnest, HelpingHans, VonIvan, that we almost agree with everything on how a map needs to be designed. As you can read in the post we talk about the southern cutoff building being a problem. And i dont know what kind of version of Faymonville do you play, because the buildings are near the fuel points (that needs to be changed also), but not the cutoff. And Arnhem in the east cutoff has windows but there is no red cover to reach the buildings and its near the cutoff, your map has the buildings litteraly almost in the capping points, and the west cutoff the building is far and the sight is blocked by a bush, so you cant shoot to the cutoff, but responding to your question, if i had more vetoes i'd def veto Arnhem, Faymonville not because it has it issues but is a solid map. I asked you what game mode do you play and if you play 1v1 and if you dont mind i would like to see your player card, here you have some replays. I will tell you more about when i make the post and such.

    https://www.coh2.org/replay/62322/this-map-needs-to-go/page/1#post_id620780

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dcw0BDfBHA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTQO6mCwR9o

  • #6
    6 years ago

    I havent played for a long time. I was no "ranked gamer". I played with friends and when i was interested in games.
    I'm more interested in mapping and map design.
    And i'm looking into the WB when i'm checking maps ;) Thats way easier.

  • #7
    6 years ago
    LucianoLuciano Posts: 26

    @Lord Rommel dijo:
    I havent played for a long time. I was no "ranked gamer". I played with friends and when i was interested in games.
    I'm more interested in mapping and map design.
    And i'm looking into the WB when i'm checking maps ;) Thats way easier.

    Then we have a problem there, these maps issues are clearly from someone who doesnt play the game, it is ok that you like mapping and such but please think in the other players that actually like playing the game, next time please dont submit a map that is going to be in the map rotation.

  • #8
    6 years ago
    Lord RommelLord Romm… Posts: 60
    edited July 2017

    I have played. I have played a lot of games. But my last pvp game was in mid 2016 (for the 1on1 map making contest ;)).
    And the map is part of the rotation because it was the 1st place for the rural category during the contest.

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